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Old Jun 10th 2015, 09:32 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by 80shilling View Post
Pro race teams do check sag, I have personally seen them do it and they have a shelf full of springs to choose from and they have data on every track they go to as a baseline, plus they already know the weight of their rider. A motorcycle from the factory is set for a specific weight and if you are NOT that weight, the spring is wrong for you.. Fact.

Why does Ohlins specifically state a sag measurement if it doesn't matter? Why do the guys I know who have worked on WSBK and AMA teams set sag if they have a new rider on their bikes? Why do they change spring rates on a per track basis? They change the rates because a spring is designed to work through a specific range of travel. This can be tailored to a specific LOAD that is generated (weight) dynamically.. A 125 lb MotoGP guy can generate a ton of load (weight), FAR more than a street rider or AFM level rider can, consequently, they need stiffer springs, because they are generating an appropriate load for that spring rate.

Road bikes only generate a narrow range of load and so we can figure out what that load is and allow for it, by choosing a spring rate that is appropriate for that load, which consists of rider weight and the amount of load that rider generates while riding. A 100 lb rider on a street bike on street tires (even at the track) will not generate the same load as an equivalent rider that weighs 250 lbs, the laws of physics dictate that; unless that 100 lb rider can somehow generate the same load as the 250 lb rider (and they can't if both riders are on the same equipment, same tires and are the same skill level).

Again, if springs don't matter and sag doesn't matter, then why does every single top end manufacturer of suspension specify sag settings and SPECIFICALLY state that you will need a different spring if you can't get that sag correct? Ohlins, K-Tech, Moton, JRZ, Penske Bi-Tubo ALL specify the sag range for their products and tell you to change the springs if you can't reach that figure.

I guess some people are so smart that they know more than Ohlins, Penske, Bi_tubo and actual people that have worked on AMA championship winning teams and set up the bikes.. INCLUDING SAG.... Yes... The guy that set up an AMA champion's suspension set his sag at each racetrack...

Dave Moss (and a few other suspension gurus) goes to every round of the AFM and other championship races and set up the suspension for many of the champions, including Rickey Corey (multiple AFM champion and sometime AMA rider) as well as the last 5 champions.. Guess what? He sets their sag and advises them on spring rates.
I am being sarcastic. Sorry.
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Old Jun 10th 2015, 09:41 AM   #42
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P.S. Just got off the phone with Ohlins USA and talked to Matthew, who is one of the support team for the AMA races and YES.. He sets sag on ALL of the bikes he works on...

When I forwarded him some of the opinions that have been stated in this thread, he literally groaned in frustration.
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Old Jun 10th 2015, 09:45 AM   #43
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Everyone has an opinion about suspension and here is mine;

1. your weight combined with the bikes weight and your styles of riding has a lot to do with suspension and how it reacts whether on the street or the track and tire wear. this includes 250's to 1000+ cc's. Track bikes, street bikes, cruisers and dirt bikes.

2. Some people are naturals and can ride anything regardless of bike setup and can react accordingly and there is some that cannot react accordingly so they need the bike setup to fit there riding style. This is true for the street/canyon carving or track.

3. If your front and rear does not work together on the street and track you are going down its just a matter of time.

4. Proper setup sag/spring rate/compression/rebound is important on or off the track.

5. I recommend everyone should play with your suspension setting and not just take the factory default. Dial in what you feel comfortable with. Don't be afraid of trying different adjustment its not rocket science. Do a little research it will help you handle the bike better.

I hate reading bad advice on these threads, get your suspension set up properly for the type of riding you will be doing whether street or track. It will only help you to be a better, safer and faster rider.

Last edited by ScrapperX; Jun 10th 2015 at 09:49 AM.
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Old Jun 10th 2015, 09:50 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by 80shilling View Post
Pro race teams do check sag, I have personally seen them do it and they have a shelf full of springs to choose from and they have data on every track they go to as a baseline, plus they already know the weight of their rider. A motorcycle from the factory is set for a specific weight and if you are NOT that weight, the spring is wrong for you.. Fact.
That's what I've always been told
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Old Jun 10th 2015, 09:58 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by fzr100098 View Post
Ok, you can stop stalking me with your bs comments you little prick
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Old Jun 10th 2015, 10:04 AM   #46
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It just goes to show that truth is often elusive in the internet age and you know what they say about opinions...

The best approach is seek out a consensus of (true) experts on a given subject, and that assumes a true, empirical scientific approach can be used (observable, testable, verifiable in real time)

Some people believe we "evolved" from apes. Laughable nonsense to any logical person, but "fact" to some "experts".
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Old Jun 10th 2015, 10:52 AM   #47
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All I can say is on the "S" model is the rear spring is for a 210lb rider as far as I know. Which is close to my weight. I have tried adjusting the settings to harder and softer in the menu and didnt like it. I am unsure of the spring rate in the forks on the S model. So for now I will leave mine in fixed mode and let the bike do the work until I drop more body weight where the electronics can no longer compensate for mechanical issues such as spring rates
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Old Jun 10th 2015, 12:59 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by fzr100098 View Post
Some people believe we "evolved" from apes. Laughable nonsense to any logical person, but "fact" to some "experts".
Oh dear.......theological arguments on a motorcycle forum, I'm not touching that one, a whole other thread in the lounge I think. I believe that Prince Albert posted a video on just this topic.
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Old Jun 10th 2015, 01:36 PM   #49
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Don't touch it, because I own the origins debate after 20+ years on many forums - I've heard it all

Bacteria to man evolution is nonsense - the end. Adaptation/speciation/selection/genetic drift within fixed genus/family lines is fact. Everything else is garbage conjecture.
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Old Jun 10th 2015, 01:48 PM   #50
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Haha...good for you, like I said, not for this forum.
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