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Old Jun 11th 2015, 07:53 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by shakazulu12 View Post
I don't think I read any comments that said springs/valving changes wouldn't be a good idea. I think the problem with the conversation is people picking bits and pieces out of the posts and not looking at the overall content of the message.

Springs/sag reccomendations are a good baseline. You tweak it from there based on actual performance. The higher up the skill ladder you are, the less you are going to look at sag IMHO.
Nailed it.
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Old Jun 11th 2015, 07:53 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by shakazulu12 View Post
Springs/sag reccomendations are a good baseline. You tweak it from there based on actual performance. The higher up the skill ladder you are, the less you are going to look at sag IMHO.
Good summary - I think what is causing some debate is the "body weight doesn't matter" assertion, it does matter, especially in extreme cases. The 260 lb rider benching 500 needs heavier springs even if he's not quite as fast as a 150 lb Pedrosa midget rider
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Old Jun 11th 2015, 08:01 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by fzr100098 View Post
Good summary - I think what is causing some debate is the "body weight doesn't matter" assertion, it does matter, especially in extreme cases. The 260 lb rider benching 500 needs heavier springs even if he's not quite as fast as a 150 lb Pedrosa midget rider
Of course. That guy (260) would bottom out the stock springs everywhere if he rode at anything close to a respectable pace. Like I said, I never said spring rate wasn't important.

My "not important" comment was more directed towards Pedrosa. I would bet a paycheck Pedrosa is running springs that are more suited for that 260lbs rider than he is springs that are suited for his 120lbs.

If they were worried about his sag numbers and used springs to achieve the "proper sag" based upon his 120lb ass, he wouldn't be able to even finish the warmup lap without bottoming his bike out everywhere. THAT is what I meant by "bodyweight is irrelevant".
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Old Jun 11th 2015, 08:02 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by fzr100098 View Post
Good summary - I think what is causing some debate is the "body weight doesn't matter" assertion, it does matter, especially in extreme cases. The 260 lb rider benching 500 needs heavier springs even if he's not quite as fast as a 150 lb Pedrosa midget rider
Yeah, but nobody said that he doesn't in the first place. That was my whole point. I'm paraphrasing, but the statement was that you use whatever spring/valving combo that puts the suspension in it's ideal working range based upon the situation. The slower you are, the easier it is to do this with just sag. The faster you are, the more you are going to deviate from that as your source of valving/spring choices. Everyone has been going in circles saying the same thing it seems like.
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Old Jun 11th 2015, 09:11 AM   #65
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Maybe this might be helpful...

Dave used to work on various AMA teams as their suspension tech..

He's also a multiple and current AFM class champion and he's rated by the AFM as in their top 10 best riders (he's #9), so not only does he know suspension theory, but he has the talent to put it into practice and it means he actually knows what he's talking about..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ikjw4IheeF4

Last edited by 80shilling; Jun 11th 2015 at 09:20 AM.
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Old Jun 11th 2015, 09:35 AM   #66
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Yes, however in this video Dave's not telling you how he'd set up a bike for a top AMA racer. As mentioned previously, it's way more complicated for a top level rider, and they might run different spring rates for different tracks or track conditions (softer rates in the rain for example). Also, the bounce test for checking damping settings doesn't work any more with many of the newer style suspension parts, such as TTX shocks. Ohlins will tell you straight up to never bounce your bike to try to dial damping in with a TTX shock, you should set it to baseline and then tune based upon track performance. Same with NIX forks, bouncing them doesn't work due to the velocity of oil flow.
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Old Jun 11th 2015, 09:52 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by 80shilling View Post
Maybe this might be helpful...

Dave used to....
How exactly was that supposed to be helpful?

Did you not see that post where I said Dave was on our crew our Endurance Team at the Grand Nationals last year? I know Dave and have worked with him personally, on several occasions.
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Old Jun 11th 2015, 09:52 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by jarelj View Post
Yes, however in this video Dave's not telling you how he'd set up a bike for a top AMA racer. As mentioned previously, it's way more complicated for a top level rider, and they might run different spring rates for different tracks or track conditions (softer rates in the rain for example). Also, the bounce test for checking damping settings doesn't work any more with many of the newer style suspension parts, such as TTX shocks. Ohlins will tell you straight up to never bounce your bike to try to dial damping in with a TTX shock, you should set it to baseline and then tune based upon track performance. Same with NIX forks, bouncing them doesn't work due to the velocity of oil flow.
Agreed, but it's a VERY good starting point for those of us that are club racers and similar.

My goal here, is to provide as much information that is SPECIFIC to our 1299's as we can all contribute. If you are an AMA racer, then you already have a suspension guru on staff, or you are using the manufacturer of your suspension's support team and it's taken care of for you.

I am lucky, I have Dave as a local resource and I can always invite him round to my place for a Chicken dinner and pick his brains.. He also shows up at every AFM race and every local trackday, so in Northern CA, we are just lucky that he's local to us. Not everyone has someone like Dave at hand and they have to try to set things up for themselves... I think this thread could tunr into a good start and a good resource if we can share knowledge and try to keep it focused on the 1299 base, S and R.
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Old Jun 11th 2015, 09:58 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Chaotic View Post
How exactly was that supposed to be helpful?

Did you not see that post where I said Dave was on our crew our Endurance Team at the Grand Nationals last year? I know Dave and have worked with him personally, on several occasions.
NOt everyone knows Dave personally ... Maybe sharing his information with a wider audience could help a few people who buy 1299's and want to know how to set them up? Great, you're an expert and know everything that Dave is telling people in that video... 99.9% of the rest of the owners on this forum DON'T.

Do you agree, that a video like this could be very helpful to people that don't have expertise and don't have a crew at their disposal with a suspension expert and don't have a GOOD local suspension guy/shop?

You seem to be annoyed by the fact that thread even exists and that I am posting information gathered from known experts. I am no expert, but I know a bunch of them and my thought is to gather as much of that information as we can, to help the GENERAL forum. It's not aimed at AMA or similar level champions and elite expert riders like you. Is that OK with you, or are you going to continue to bitch and whine every time I post something?
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Old Jun 11th 2015, 10:07 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by 80shilling View Post
NOt everyone knows Dave personally ... Maybe sharing his information with a wider audience could help a few people who buy 1299's and want to know how to set them up? Great, you're an expert and know everything that Dave is telling people in that video... 99.9% of the rest of the owners on this forum DON'T.

Do you agree, that a video like this could be very helpful to people that don't have expertise and don't have a crew at their disposal with a suspension expert and don't have a GOOD local suspension guy/shop?

You seem to be annoyed by the fact that thread even exists and that I am posting information gathered from known experts. I am no expert, but I know a bunch of them and my thought is to gather as much of that information as we can, to help the GENERAL forum. It's not aimed at AMA or similar level champions and elite expert riders like you. Is that OK with you, or are you going to continue to bitch and whine every time I post something?
Sure. Perhaps I took that post wrong. I took that post as if you were directing it towards me. As if you were saying "maybe this will be helpful..." as in you were trying to point out Dave's background and knowledge to me as a means of trying to somehow discredit some of the points I have been making.

For the record, I don't disagree with what Dave says or does. For somebody that has no idea where to begin with setup/spring rates, by all means do that stuff and get your spring rates sorted so the bike isn't way too stiff or soft in general.

My only point was that when it comes to performance riding, and TRUE setup for the individual, for the track, for the circumstances, for the tires, etc...bodyweight isn't a factor.
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