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Old Sep 7th 2016, 02:09 AM   #11
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Aeeehmmm.....
@Chaotic: That's exactly what Bursi does on their customer bikes. Keep the ABS unit in place, but remove the hydraulic lines and re-route new ones (from Frentubo carbon pipes).
Reason is to improve exactly what you're missing
Friend of mine in Switzerland did it on his 2015R. And he's happy with it (and he is f*@#ing fast on the track)!

BTW: To my knowledge no aftermarket tool does yet allow to activate the ABS unit to flush for the Panigale.
Even Ducati dealers get new ABS units already filled with DOT4, so that they don't should run into bleeding problems (at least this is what my mechanic told me). I don't even know whether DDS supports activation of the ABS pumps.

Some tried to install 4 Stahlbus valves on the ABS unit. Lot of work, expensive and the real problem is not solved but only shifted.

Last edited by Gecko; Sep 7th 2016 at 02:12 AM.
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Old Sep 7th 2016, 02:19 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Gecko View Post
Aeeehmmm.....
@Chaotic: That's exactly what Bursi does on their customer bikes. Keep the ABS unit in place, but remove the hydraulic lines and re-route new ones (from Frentubo carbon pipes).
Reason is to improve exactly what you're missing
Friend of mine in Switzerland did it on his 2015R. And he's happy with it (and he is f*@#ing fast on the track)!
So you are saying the TC, WC, and everything else will continue to work after plugging/bypassing the ABS?
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Old Sep 7th 2016, 02:22 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Chaotic View Post
So you are saying the TC, WC, and everything else will continue to work after plugging/bypassing the ABS?
I honestly don't know. I'll ask my friend whether he encountered problems in the past. I just know that there are experienced people out there who do this conversion.

Guessing doesn't really help. Ducati never published anything about their control loops, their algorithms etc.
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Old Sep 7th 2016, 02:49 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Chaotic View Post
Yes you can.

The purpose is because the brakes on the Panigale suck and I want to make them better.
Find that surprising . Have not seen any race bikes here with the ABS deleted .
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Old Sep 7th 2016, 03:13 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by wilkson View Post
Find that surprising . Have not seen any race bikes here with the ABS deleted .
Do they have a good way to better bleed the entire system? Are they allowed to change the rotors, calipers, MC, etc?

When it comes to lever travel and all-out braking power, the Panigale brakes are the worst brakes I have had on any race bike aside from the '09 GSX-R750 I raced (it was horrible).

I race in SS classes and we cannot change the rotors or calipers or MC.

Like I said, the brakes get bled at least once a day, we have swapped to Motul 660 fluid, and have changed the brake pads. All of those things helped, but there is still WAY too much lever travel, and they fade towards the end of longer races.

The biggest variable has to be the ABS system. Too many places for the fluid to go, too many places for bubbles to hide, etc.
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Old Sep 7th 2016, 04:12 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Gecko View Post
Aeeehmmm.....
@Chaotic: That's exactly what Bursi does on their customer bikes. Keep the ABS unit in place, but remove the hydraulic lines and re-route new ones (from Frentubo carbon pipes).
Reason is to improve exactly what you're missing
Friend of mine in Switzerland did it on his 2015R. And he's happy with it (and he is f*@#ing fast on the track)!

BTW: To my knowledge no aftermarket tool does yet allow to activate the ABS unit to flush for the Panigale.
Even Ducati dealers get new ABS units already filled with DOT4, so that they don't should run into bleeding problems (at least this is what my mechanic told me). I don't even know whether DDS supports activation of the ABS pumps.

Some tried to install 4 Stahlbus valves on the ABS unit. Lot of work, expensive and the real problem is not solved but only shifted.
Hi Urs,
The reason the ABS units come from the factory with fluid is that they are bench tested for functionality at the factory.
Once you crack any of the lines or fittings open, air will enter the system . DDS does have a test plan to activate the the internal pumps and solenoids, this is there to pressurize the system and push out the air bubbles trapped inside.
Most ABS systems require to be pressure bled between 1-2 Bar of pressure but, since this is not possible on our bikes due to the pressed on fluid reservoir , they need to be bled using the DDS scan tool. This is even stated in the factory repair manual.
I'm sure the ABS system can be deleted but, not easily and it will definitely affect the other systems tied into the ABS.
Thanks from Gecko
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Old Sep 7th 2016, 04:43 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by tslsx74 View Post
Hi Urs,
The reason the ABS units come from the factory with fluid is that they are bench tested for functionality at the factory.
Once you crack any of the lines or fittings open, air will enter the system . DDS does have a test plan to activate the the internal pumps and solenoids, this is there to pressurize the system and push out the air bubbles trapped inside.
Most ABS systems require to be pressure bled between 1-2 Bar of pressure but, since this is not possible on our bikes due to the pressed on fluid reservoir , they need to be bled using the DDS scan tool. This is even stated in the factory repair manual.
I'm sure the ABS system can be deleted but, not easily and it will definitely affect the other systems tied into the ABS.
Thanks for this info! I guess Bursi made another tinkering
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Old Sep 7th 2016, 11:48 AM   #18
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Chaotic, this may sound dumb but what levers are you using? Reason I ask is my friend was having serious fade and bleeding issues on his 1199R and seems that his CF CRG lever was contributing to his issue. Under warranty they replaced his MC and the issue went away and then he had his CF CRG lever put back on and the problem came back until he switched back to the stock lever again. Just a thought...
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Old Sep 7th 2016, 12:55 PM   #19
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I normally bleed my brakes with engine running. From what I understand the ABS valves are Normaly open so why would you need to cycle them for bleeding?


there are cars which need cycling due to having mutlple solneoids of both NO and NC type for Stability control which needed cycling. Think the new R1 and BMW bikes with their single lever operation need this to an extent, but havnt really had much dealing with them.

The simple way is to run direct line from MC to caliper, remove the other lines and plug the ports. Theres a number of bikes which have already done this.

The MC is part of the problem here too. New bleed nipples/thread tape nipples or just replace with RCS Type.

To remove the complete ABS system is more complex. And Due to the 1299 (and S fancy suspension) electronics there is no simple way without going full race electronics, Re-flashing (with error lights) or looking into the Ducati Corse cataloge

Last edited by DStyleNZL; Sep 7th 2016 at 12:56 PM. Reason: Spelling
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Old Sep 7th 2016, 02:48 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by flobrandx View Post
Chaotic, this may sound dumb but what levers are you using? Reason I ask is my friend was having serious fade and bleeding issues on his 1199R and seems that his CF CRG lever was contributing to his issue. Under warranty they replaced his MC and the issue went away and then he had his CF CRG lever put back on and the problem came back until he switched back to the stock lever again. Just a thought...
This seems pretty suspect.. just changing a lever shouldn't have much in the way of impact, unless said lever has more "flex" which might attribute to a spongier feel.

Does the CF CRG lever swap somehow mess with leverage ratio on the MC piston? I assume it is just a direct replacement for the stock lever, but perhaps I'm mistaken..
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