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Old Aug 2nd 2017, 03:27 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by topolino View Post
True enough but owners of the 1299/S/R were originally given to believe their bikes were only 4bhp shy of a bike costing almost twice as much (comparing an FE to the price of a 1299 base model). Little incentive to trade-up for such a small advantage, so re-evaluate your measurement methods and bingo 12bhp. All of a sudden 35K seems a tad more worthwhile. I frankly don't give a monkeys as I am not in the market for an FE. Even with this "new" differential in power, it's still seemingly overpriced for what it is. Anniversario buyers I believe will probably get much more bang for their buck in terms of an investment.


I know and your point is a fair one.
In time with the easy availability of so many independent and well publicised tests manufacturers hopefully will post more accurate and reliable specs.

As for the FE,, 35 k. In that I def agree I don't see an appreciable enough difference to warrant the cost and would prefer an anni for long term ownership / investment if that's your thing.


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Old Aug 2nd 2017, 08:58 PM   #62
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I knew this all along, my arsedyno doesn't lie, no way was my bike making 205bhp, I knew it was in the 196-198 range.

Although my Anniversario obviously makes over 215bhp rwp as it's more special than the FE.
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Last edited by BenF04; Aug 2nd 2017 at 09:01 PM.
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Old Aug 2nd 2017, 11:08 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by BenF04 View Post
I knew this all along, my arsedyno doesn't lie, no way was my bike making 205bhp, I knew it was in the 196-198 range.

Although my Anniversario obviously makes over 215bhp rwp as it's more special than the FE.
Perhaps Ducati should employ you to rate their power outputs! Not sure I could sense the difference. Plenty fast enough for most mere mortals, whatever these bikes pump out.
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Old Aug 3rd 2017, 03:42 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by topolino View Post
Worth a read. Ducati lowers power claims | Visordown

Here is a breakdown of the power drops across the range:

959 Panigale – was 157hp, now 150hp (7hp drop)

1299 Panigale – was 205hp, now 197hp (8hp drop)

Panigale R (1198cc) – was 205hp, now 196hp (9hp drop)

Monster 797 – was 75hp, now 73hp (2hp drop)

Monster 821 – was 112hp, now 109hp (3hp drop)

Monster 1200 – was 150hp, now 147hp (3hp drop)

Monster 1200 R – was 160hp, now 152hp (8hp drop)

Diavel – was 162hp, now 152hp (10hp drop)

XDiavel – was 156hp, now 152hp (4hp drop)

Multistrada 950 – was 113hp, now 113hp (unchanged)

Multistrada 1200/Enduro – was 160hp, now 152hp (8hp drop)

Hypermotoard – was 113hp, now 110hp (3hp drop)

SuperSport – was 113hp, now 110hp (3hp drop)

The figures for the 1299 Superleggera (215hp) and 1299 Panigale R Final Edition (209hp) are unaltered.



I can't help feeling that this is convenient timing (to change the measurement method) as it provides a noticeably bigger gap in performance between the 1299/S/R and the FE, than previously, which might help fuel the perception that the cost difference is worth it. Particularly the R to the FE, where the gulf was previously not so wide (from 4bhp to 12bhp a 300% increase!)
We complained about it to both Ducati and moto journalists as early as June 24th here:

2017 Monster 1200R power drop??? - Ducati Monster Forums: Ducati Monster Motorcycle Forum

Finally the truth comes out.
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Old Aug 10th 2017, 08:15 AM   #65
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local dealership told me that the dyno number drops were due to new euro 4 compliant ECU mapping on their 2017 models which led to re-testing and numbers revision. not sure but it sounds plausible.

Last edited by wrussi; Aug 10th 2017 at 08:21 AM.
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Old Aug 10th 2017, 09:21 AM   #66
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Your dealer is half right and wrong. Emissions didn't change the numbers. It's all about the standard that is now used instead of the previous method.

Euro 4 spec calls for ALL bikes sold in Europe to be measured for Hp in the same way. I believe they are using the SAE hp numbers now. There is a correction factor for previous Ducati models old dyno numbers. All that was needed is to apply that correction to previous data to get all the numbers in line for the older models.

The dyno used by the manufactures are not the same as your local dyno which can vary numbers because of heat, humidity, load applied, different fuels, and state of tune. The manufacturer has ALL variables at a fixed value such as the oil temp, fuel type and brand, clean filters, new plugs, new engine etc... These Dyno's are calibrated regularly and eliminate the "human" factors.

IMO...It would be nice if they would just use a standard that measures the RWHP instead, as that is all that really counts in the real world...

The same confusion occurred decades ago when the US went from BHP numbers to Net HP numbers for new auto's. BHP measured crank hp without any standard accessories on the engine. (water pump, alternator, air filter, etc...) Net HP was measured with the accessories installed. The difference was usually 50-70 hp on a V-8 engine. Nothing really changed at the rear wheel. It was just a different and more honest way of measuring power...
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Old Aug 10th 2017, 09:57 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by DarR View Post
We complained about it to both Ducati and moto journalists as early as June 24th here:

Finally the truth comes out.
What truth??? No Hp was really lost! All it was just the method used to measure.
BMW used a different method than most all other manufacturers and their method was closer to the actual RWHP.

Until Euro 4 came out there was no legal requirement on how the manufacturer measured and then advertised the power.

In the US, new motorcycles models have the power remeasured to a standard and that power is listed for title and registration purposes.

Most prospective buyers don't know this but you can ask any US dealer to show you the HP for the TITLE/REGISTRATION for any specific model and compare them to other brands and models sold for comparison. Those numbers will always be less than the advertised power and use a specific standardized method required for ALL bikes sold in the USA.

There is only one recent instance where Ducati got in trouble. That was when the 2015 Multistrada was grossly overrating the hp numbers. I believe an ECU retune and airbox/ airfilter change covered under the warranty fixed that problem.
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Old Aug 10th 2017, 02:31 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by wrussi View Post
local dealership told me that the dyno number drops were due to new euro 4 compliant ECU mapping on their 2017 models which led to re-testing and numbers revision. not sure but it sounds plausible.


1299 not euro 4 compliant except sl and fe so your dealer is incorrect


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Old Aug 10th 2017, 03:19 PM   #69
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I Ride: 2015 1299S, 2016 Ural Gear-Up, 2001 XR650R, 1973 Norton Commando
Bike still makes the same horsepower to me: "as much as my talent can handle" +50 or so.

Maybe we should try to make lemonade out of this and attempt to convince the insurance companies that it should be bumped down a tier now that it's sub-200? I'm sure it'll go well. Hell, you don't even need a high-performance endorsement on your pilot's license until you hit 200...
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