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Old Mar 9th 2014, 11:37 AM   #41
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Exactly jarelj.


Everyone in the 848 was looking to swap out their progressive link for a flat one, and no one complained.

I run F for aggressive canyon riding and we have some real crap pavement, nothing can replace a properly set up suspension. Should I repeat that?

The whole process is dynamic which requires a bit of tuning skills and steps that need to be taken in order. Spring rate is something as jarelj mentioned, you don't skip on or it defeats your purpose. If your foundation is jacked, your chasing your tail with settings or adjustments of any kind.


F works beautifully and I couldn't imagine changing a thing.


I have not once had the rear step out on me other then pebbles/rocks or impacted clay.


Part of the success in setting up your suspension is getting rear sag set up for you, not someone else's measurements. We played with it in all areas, to soft and to tight to set it where I like it and what worked for me, FOR my typical road conditions where I like to ride the most.

Funny to soft, and its like a pogo stick pumping coming out of corners, to tight and you get what people are describing above that has little to do with P or F.



Part of the problem here, is that the with so many different adjustments possible, it leaves room for potential error at every step or every change.
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Old Mar 9th 2014, 01:20 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by outhouse View Post
Exactly jarelj.


Everyone in the 848 was looking to swap out their progressive link for a flat one, and no one complained.

I run F for aggressive canyon riding and we have some real crap pavement, nothing can replace a properly set up suspension. Should I repeat that?

The whole process is dynamic which requires a bit of tuning skills and steps that need to be taken in order. Spring rate is something as jarelj mentioned, you don't skip on or it defeats your purpose. If your foundation is jacked, your chasing your tail with settings or adjustments of any kind.


F works beautifully and I couldn't imagine changing a thing.


I have not once had the rear step out on me other then pebbles/rocks or impacted clay.


Part of the success in setting up your suspension is getting rear sag set up for you, not someone else's measurements. We played with it in all areas, to soft and to tight to set it where I like it and what worked for me, FOR my typical road conditions where I like to ride the most.

Funny to soft, and its like a pogo stick pumping coming out of corners, to tight and you get what people are describing above that has little to do with P or F.



Part of the problem here, is that the with so many different adjustments possible, it leaves room for potential error at every step or every change.
An excellent post.
I couldn't agree more
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Old Mar 10th 2014, 08:51 AM   #43
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Thanks for this, I wanted to change mine from F to P and does not show in the book fully.
Good thread.
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Old Jun 4th 2014, 04:58 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Steve B View Post
Most of the "P is better" comments have come from people saying the bike's too stiff in the back and gets unsettled over rough pavement as a result. P does soften about the first third or so of the stroke, but the middle ratio's about the same as in F and the last part of the stroke is stiffer than F. That's what it's designed to be like. Bit of compliance for solo riding on real world roads, with enough resistance at the end for two-up riding.

Did a quick-n-dirty measure on mine in both positions recently just to see the difference. Pulled the shock and measured eye-to-eye distance at different wheel travel positions with the link in F and P. Not really accurate enough to post graphs or hard numbers (really need about .1mm accuracy to make that worthwhile), but in F it looks to stay at 2:1 all the way through (2mm wheel travel to 1mm shock travel). So F really is flat, or at least appears so on my crappy 1mm scale. P ends up creating a pretty straight line too; a very slight arc with the upward bow towards the middle rather than the end like you tend to see. In any case it's nowhere near as progressive as some bikes (my Daytona, for instance). Think two lines, one flat, and the other starting out lower but angled up a bit, so it crosses the flat one in the middle, and you have a good idea of how the two linkage positions compare to each other terms of effective spring rate. Think in the neighborhood of a 1.5:1 (stiffer) to 2.5:1 (softer) range instead of flat 2:1 and you'll be pretty close, but don't quote me on that. Need.better.measure; 1mm scale means +/-.5mm accuracy at best.

Anyway, with stock springs, that softer 1st 3rd will make the bike more compliant over bumps, but I didn't like what it did to chassis control. Felt like the rear wanted to squat and then pack, so I went back to F. I do need a little lighter spring on the rear of my base model at around 150lbs dry, but am trying to figure out what to go with. Dan Kyle said 8.0-8.5N/mm, so I was thinking 8.5 since everyone says the rear is a 9.0 and I'm not far out on my sag. However I'm thinking the base already has about an 8.5 on it. Coil, wire diameter & # of coils looks a LOT like 8.5 to me. Anyone have definitive numbers on the OEM base spring rates, or have measured them?

I tend to think F with the right spring is what you're going to be best off with for solo riding on relatively smooth surfaces (road or track), but I reserve the right to be full of it. Gnarlier roads might well favor P overall, even if you end up with a bit of wallow in the corners. But aren't those roads what Hypers are for?
What do you have your Rebound and Compression set at?
I too am around 150 and can not seem to dial this beast in? Thx
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Old Sep 8th 2014, 05:35 AM   #45
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The suspension works best in flat. But can be hard......However if you back off pre load on the shock so it shows 4 threads onlyout of the nut. And ensure the shock lenght is 310mm centre to centre on the eyes your'll find a good setting.

The front forks sit through the top yolks by 10mm (top of alloy cap. Not tube)

The F or P does not effect either the operation of the shock or how it feels. thats down to the rebound and comp.

What is good is an adjustable ride height tie rod. That allows you to maintain a flat aspect ride height. Which tragically alters with chain adjetment or sprocket choices (more of a racing thing)
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Old Sep 8th 2014, 06:23 AM   #46
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[QUOTE=What is good is an adjustable ride height tie rod. That allows you to maintain a flat aspect ride height. Which tragically alters with chain adjetment or sprocket choices (more of a racing thing) Thx[/QUOTE]

What should the ride height be?

Last edited by kev1199s; Sep 10th 2014 at 06:50 PM.
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Old Sep 8th 2014, 07:24 AM   #47
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46Nm
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Old Sep 8th 2014, 08:04 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by White13Pani View Post
46Nm
???

Height as in inch foot meter centimeter millimeter
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Old Sep 8th 2014, 08:22 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Phl View Post
???

Height as in inch foot meter centimeter millimeter
...cubits..chains... poles ..rods or perches...
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Old Apr 21st 2015, 09:26 PM   #50
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I Ride: A snotty, noisy, ill tempered bag of arseholes 1199...but god I love it!
So has anyone played with changing the ride height by extending or shortening the linkage?
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